Friday, June 10, 2005

My unresolved issue

I ran across this post, and it made me again take a serious look about my feelings on gay marriage. I can't seem to give this issue up, at least not until I come to some personal decision.

I'm certainly not interested in limiting another human's chance at happiness. In fact, I'm not interested in almost any social limits. I've always believed that your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Do whatever the hell you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

And I can't find a good reason to believe that two men or two women getting married will somehow directly tarnish my marriage, my parent's marriage, or anyone else's.

Yet I can't get over the feeling that "gay marriage" would somehow cross a line. Not a moral line (although I acknowledge that many people believe this), but a nebulous, barely defined idea in my head that makes sense of words, definitions and the relationship between the two.

I believe that I have made this comparison before, but when I was taking philosophy in college, my prof helped define "a priori" with a simple equation: unmarried male = bachelor. In other words, the idea of unmarried male is inherent in the word bachelor. It does not need to be proven, it is. This stands in relation to a posteriori, which is empirically provable, but does not contain the proof in itself.

I would argue (and please tell me if I'm wrong - not anecdotally or emotionally, but with proof) that marriage = culturally recognized union of a man and a woman. Marriage is a priori the union of the opposite sexes. That a man and a woman (and not two of the same sexes) are joined is inherent in the definition of marriage.

So fucking what, you ask?

Well, that's a fair question, and hence my problem with the issue. We could all throw up our hands and call the sky the ground. We could decide that TV means cow, and cow means shelf, and shelf means wallet. Why can't we decide that marriage means any union between two people? Or, off subject, why not make it any union between any several people? Polygamy is not a new phenomenon, and has been practiced in many different cultures around the world.

In this light, my hang-up seems to be that a minority of the population is pressing for a change in definition to an ancient practice, ostensibly because of disenfranchisement. I have the same issue with transgendered people calling themselves the opposite sex. Let's be honest, surgery does not a man or a woman make. At the most fundamental biological level, they are still the sex to which they were born. You're either XX or XY, and the rest is just window dressing.

I'm white. Should I be able to declare myself hispanic or african, just because it would fulfill some personal need? Should I expect other people to go along with this fallacy, despite my near translucently pale skin? More so, should I be legally defined by whatever I feel like being?

If we fall into complete relativism, then there is no reason to speak further; there is no reason to try to describe abstract ideas and thoughts, because they become meaningless. If we are legally required to recognize whatever some people want, then we are inviting a revisionism that will completely blur the lines between any concepts that can be understood in relation to eachother.

So here comes the disclaimer. I have no problem with the idea of civil union, with all of the benefits and penalties that it entails. In fact, if we decide to scrap "marriage" altogether and make any joining a civil union, then so be it. It took my wife over 5 years to talk me into registering with the city for a piece of paper that "officially" states our union. In my mind, we were joined long, long before the day that we annually celebrate.

But now (and without my wife's permission), I declare us to be foreign diplomats, and exempt from US law. I feel disenfranchised by the fact that simply because I am not foreign-born, I can't be a political diplomat from another country.

At least, this makes as much sense to me as gay marriage.

11 Comments:

At 6/11/2005 05:19:00 AM , Blogger Lisa said...

Hmmm very interesting points. I don't suppose I have ever thought of the situation in quite that way. You are right of course. If we change definitions to suit any given situation that arises, nothing is sacred.

But having said that ... I don't think that the gay population really cares about the word "marriage" per se. They just want to be afforded the same rights, priveledges, and tax breaks as the rest of us who are in committed co-habitational relationships.

It would be really interesting to have someone from the gay sector comment on this post.

I personally don't care. I think that the amount of time politicians and holier-than-thou church officials waste arguing about it could be spent more constructively.

Let them marry. Let them have the same security and enjoyment (and dammit, benefits) as anyone else that makes the conscious decision to spend their lives with another person.

And for that matter how freaking hard would it be to change the definition of marriage from - a union between a man and a woman to the union of two people?

Damn I am verbose aren't I? I vote yes. (If we are voting here...) Let them get married. Let them have cake.

Are we voting? lmao!
Great post Kommie pie!

 
At 6/11/2005 06:38:00 AM , Blogger SassyAssy said...

Some very good points made. If it is not hurting someone, let it be. I don't see how affording them rights as a couple to insurance, etc could hurt. However, you did make a good point with your illustrations of being white and wanting to declare oneself hispanic or african for the feel good factor.

I feel disenfranchised because I am no longer a girl in her twenties so I am officially declaring that I will always be 26.

 
At 6/11/2005 07:45:00 AM , Blogger J C said...

Very interesting post. I share some of your sentiments.For instance, why do some Americans feel compelled to refer to themselves as, "African Americans?"

Something that helps me to arrive at my own conclusion about same gender marriage is, Normal is Normal, period, and Natural is Natural, period. For everyone, not just depending who or what a person is. And to strengthen that observation I remember; There is no homosexuality in nature. None...zip...no way...it can't happen...nature won't allow it.

 
At 6/11/2005 11:32:00 PM , Blogger KOM said...

Lisa and QoS - On a "screw it, can't we all just get along?" level, I completely agree with you. This post was a devils-advocate response to the tickle in the back of my brain that gives me pause over gay marriage. And to be absolutely clear, I don't mean union or any state-sponsored "joining". Simply marriage.

Jcalda - Thanks for visiting. Since I don't know who you are, I will assume that your reply was meant sarcastically regarding there being no homosexuality in nature.

BTW, Lisa.. did you just call me a commie? Eh, my pinko comrade?

 
At 6/12/2005 05:24:00 AM , Blogger Lisa said...

I disagree with the whole "no gay animal thing". And, apparently, I am not the only one....

http://www.subversions.com/french/pages/science/animals.html

and no, KOM, I am not calling you a pinko commie bastard =) it was a term of endearment!

how about Komqwat?

 
At 6/12/2005 06:22:00 PM , Blogger T.C. said...

Civil union with all the benefits must be accorded. That's progress. Why the need, however, to change the definition of marriage is another matter that reveals my intellectual limitations. I just don't see the need to do so. As long as we have a healthy debate about it. Separately, I remember when PC decided that blacks wanted to be recognized as African-Americans - I was in high school in Canada. To me and my friend, it sounded superficial. We declared (since were of Italian heritage) we wanted to be known as Romans as an argument. The absurdity was apparent to the class. Fair enough we said, then why should any culture have that privilege!? Imagine if everyone had a Gazoo like Fred and Barney did. Imagine.

 
At 6/12/2005 06:43:00 PM , Blogger Squishi said...

well the ancient greeks were into it and it was considered NORMAL back then.

So... well, that doesn't prove anything, but it gives you something to think about.

 
At 6/13/2005 08:17:00 AM , Blogger Scott said...

Kom,
You might consider that we use the word marriage a lot more loosely than just between a man and a woman. In fact, religously, we commonly say that a priest is married to God. We also say that men and women are married to their religion. Secularly, it's not uncommon to say that someone is married to their job.
So I'd have to disagree that marriage is a priori the union of a man and a woman. It still might not meen the union of two men (and in 49 states, it doesn't). But you'll have to admit that while the definition of bachelor is "unmarried man", there are multiple definitions of marriage.

 
At 6/13/2005 08:33:00 AM , Blogger Yawn said...

You've got a good point, or at least a good analogy. I'm pure white and more fluent in Spanish than most of the folks flying under the banner of "Hispanic." I read it, write it, speak it, and listen to it. What's to stop me from putting "Hispanic" on grant applications? I'll tell you- because it would be a lie. And I only lie in my blog.

 
At 6/13/2005 08:57:00 AM , Blogger Robyn said...

If you want to talk about the "ancient prectice" of marriage, I find it hard to believe that cave man had such strictly defined terms of "marriage". I don't think you could say we had such strictly defined marriage ideals until Christianity, and not even at the beginning of Christianity, but well into it. I have to believe that ancient man was smarter than we are, and understood that human feelings and emotions cannot be explained away by nature. Our brains are organized so differently than other animals - although I do not agree there is no homosexualty in nature. Research Bonobo monkeys, who are considered to be the most closely related DNA wise to humans. Cave man probably said, well, that's a dude, but he likes that other dude. So, they should live together, right? Why does our culture not blink an eye when we hear about men with multiple wives, but we get our panties in a twist when we hear about a woman with multiple husbands? Why is it considered a "natural" thing for women to share one man? I personally think that "gay marriage" is no different than my mariage, the union of two people who care deeply for each other.

 
At 6/13/2005 10:34:00 AM , Blogger KOM said...

Renaissance - precisely.

Scott - I agree that we use "marriage" more loosely than it's specific definition, but that it true of many, many words. At worst we could call it slang, at best idiom. But it doesn't change the nature or the meaning of the word.
I'm accusing you of symantically splitting hairs, but that's what my whole argument is based on as well.

R - I'm not sure that our ancestors were more inherently intelligent, but they probably didn't think that 'God' kept one eye on their bedrooms.

 

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